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Jazzy
Administrator
Netherlands
1929 Posts
Status: offline |
 Posted - 06/27/2012 : 4:37:27 PM
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I'm currently attending TechEd Europe and must say I'm pretty impressed by Server 2012. Until now I mostly focused on Hyper-V and clustering improvements, but there's a lot more good news. Especially in areas which have not much changed since Windows 2000 Server, like AD, DNS, DHCP, file- and print, policies, etc. And most important: everything in PowerShell.
I think that Windows Server 2012 delivers great value and justifies the costs of upgrades. Serer 2012 is much more than just the latest version.
What do you guys think?
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Jetze Mellema
Exchange specialist
Former MVP (2005-2012)
My blog: http://jetzemellema.blogspot.com (Dutch)
My company: http://www.imara-ict.nl/ |
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wobble_wobble
Honorable But Hopeless Addict
Ireland
4517 Posts
Status: offline |
Posted - 06/27/2012 : 6:41:24 PM
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How do I turn off the metro interface.
Why has it taken 12 years to start query AD for MS products.
Why are we pulling AD into XML databases? |
Joe
After everything that has happened during the month of Jan 07, I do believe that pigs fly backwards!
http://whatismyv6.com/ |
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Playwell
Honorable But Hopeless Addict
Netherlands
4819 Posts
Status: online |
Posted - 06/28/2012 : 04:00:14 AM
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| You turn off the metro interface by running core. Geez :) |
'People who think they know everything are a great annoyance to those of us who do. '
Quote by Isaac Asimov
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Pesos
Honorable But Hopeless Addict
USA
3505 Posts
Status: offline |
Posted - 06/28/2012 : 04:25:25 AM
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Can't turn off metro. Extremely annoying when in an RDP window (like I am 100% of the time ugh).
But Hyper-v is awesome, as is dedup. I am exciting about dhcp, and the printing improvements - too bad the latter require win8 clients, which I don't see us deploying any time soon. Users are going to s**t a brick or twelve when they get a load of startbuttonlessmetro. |
-Wes |
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Jazzy
Administrator
Netherlands
1929 Posts
Status: offline |
Posted - 06/28/2012 : 06:23:22 AM
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| Agree on Metro in RDP. I just build my new lab with core servers (or more correct: servers without a GUI installed) and I perform the management either cmdline (configuring the basics with sconfig) and PowerShell (Install-ADDSForest) or with RSAT on a Windows 8 workstation. Works better than managing servers with Metro. |
Jetze Mellema
Exchange specialist
Former MVP (2005-2012)
My blog: http://jetzemellema.blogspot.com (Dutch)
My company: http://www.imara-ict.nl/ |
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Pesos
Honorable But Hopeless Addict
USA
3505 Posts
Status: offline |
Posted - 06/28/2012 : 11:24:33 AM
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| What if (like us) all your servers are in a datacenter... Rdp into that win8 workstation? Oh wait... :) |
-Wes |
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Jazzy
Administrator
Netherlands
1929 Posts
Status: offline |
Posted - 06/28/2012 : 11:32:09 AM
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| I expect you'd be running Windows 8 on your workstation in a couple of months, if not just install the Remote Server Administration Tools on your Windows 7 computer. No need to RDP into another computer to perform your environment then. :) |
Jetze Mellema
Exchange specialist
Former MVP (2005-2012)
My blog: http://jetzemellema.blogspot.com (Dutch)
My company: http://www.imara-ict.nl/ |
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wobble_wobble
Honorable But Hopeless Addict
Ireland
4517 Posts
Status: offline |
Posted - 06/28/2012 : 11:35:29 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by Jazzy
I expect you'd be running Windows 8 on your workstation in a couple of months, if not just install the Remote Server Administration Tools on your Windows 7 computer. No need to RDP into another computer to perform your environment then. :)
And if Server is busted and your trying to manage it over an iLO/ OOBM port - who do we call, Ghostbusters? |
Joe
After everything that has happened during the month of Jan 07, I do believe that pigs fly backwards!
http://whatismyv6.com/ |
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Pesos
Honorable But Hopeless Addict
USA
3505 Posts
Status: offline |
Posted - 06/28/2012 : 11:38:12 AM
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| No one is onsite with the servers is my point... Trying to work with RSaT from a workstation in our environment would mean configuring some kind of VPN solution and managing with anywhere from 30-100ms of latency between us and the servers which is a pretty painful experience... Not to mention domain- joining the workstation(s). None of which really make sense in our environment. Years and years of management via Citrix is going to have to be reworked thanks to a GUI that doesn't belong in a server os! :) |
-Wes |
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Pesos
Honorable But Hopeless Addict
USA
3505 Posts
Status: offline |
Posted - 06/28/2012 : 11:40:55 AM
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| Good point joe - have been battling ilo/drac a bit already; not fun. 2012 will be a success in spite of metro; not in any way because of it... |
-Wes |
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wobble_wobble
Honorable But Hopeless Addict
Ireland
4517 Posts
Status: offline |
Posted - 06/28/2012 : 11:55:49 AM
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And while we're at it, can I install Exchange, Sharepoint, Lync onto a server with no GUI?
What about Orchestrator and SCVMM ( no I can manage Hyper-V from PoSH, but wait junior admin, how he do it?)
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Joe
After everything that has happened during the month of Jan 07, I do believe that pigs fly backwards!
http://whatismyv6.com/ |
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Pesos
Honorable But Hopeless Addict
USA
3505 Posts
Status: offline |
Posted - 06/28/2012 : 12:05:03 PM
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| I don't mind losing the start button but the hot corners business is BS. They at least need to expand the corner area on server because it is a SERIOUS PITA. |
-Wes |
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wkasdo
Administrator
Netherlands
7403 Posts
Status: offline |
Posted - 06/28/2012 : 12:17:44 PM
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> They at least need to expand the corner area on server because it is a SERIOUS PITA.
Oh yes. Especially on RDP. |
Make it as simple as you can, but not simpler -- Albert Einstein |
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Jazzy
Administrator
Netherlands
1929 Posts
Status: offline |
Posted - 06/28/2012 : 2:44:42 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by wobble_wobble
And while we're at it, can I install Exchange, Sharepoint, Lync onto a server with no GUI?
What about Orchestrator and SCVMM ( no I can manage Hyper-V from PoSH, but wait junior admin, how he do it?)
I'm not saying you never need to RDP into a server, I'm just saying they make it much easier to do management from a work station. And if you're on a server without a GUI and you definetely think you need a GUI do this:
Powershell
Get-WindowsFeature *gui* | Install-WindowsFeature
Easy, isn't it? |
Jetze Mellema
Exchange specialist
Former MVP (2005-2012)
My blog: http://jetzemellema.blogspot.com (Dutch)
My company: http://www.imara-ict.nl/ |
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wobble_wobble
Honorable But Hopeless Addict
Ireland
4517 Posts
Status: offline |
Posted - 06/28/2012 : 3:20:12 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by Jazzy
quote:
Originally posted by wobble_wobble
And while we're at it, can I install Exchange, Sharepoint, Lync onto a server with no GUI?
What about Orchestrator and SCVMM ( no I can manage Hyper-V from PoSH, but wait junior admin, how he do it?)
I'm not saying you never need to RDP into a server, I'm just saying they make it much easier to do management from a work station. And if you're on a server without a GUI and you definetely think you need a GUI do this:
Powershell
Get-WindowsFeature *gui* | Install-WindowsFeature
Easy, isn't it?
The perfect Catch 22 |
Joe
After everything that has happened during the month of Jan 07, I do believe that pigs fly backwards!
http://whatismyv6.com/ |
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wobble_wobble
Honorable But Hopeless Addict
Ireland
4517 Posts
Status: offline |
Posted - 06/28/2012 : 3:25:49 PM
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Seriously, we spent years bemoaning the poxy CLI and having Penguin envy.
Meanwhile they have perfect GUI envy.
Now we have a champion CLI.
But what the.....insert word(s)...... did they do to the GUI.
I can just see the Penguins now, laughing like Lemmings wanting a Touch GUI on a server.
Give me a free Surface with every Server OS I deploy or let the damn fix out of the bag and tell us how to turn off Charms (not) Magic Pixels(why) and tiles....Next it will cool to surf the net, install apps and generally use the server as another BYOD.
Picture the scene, perfect storm/ crisis conditions, end customer has an issue and your not connected to the internet (holidays, in a car, no laptop) and your trying to tell the end user how to use PoSH....I do not know how many times I've gotten a customer to a point of at least diagnosing over the phone what is wrong because they can "see" what they are doing. Imagine trying to do that with (see below please for the light bulb moment I had) a customer in PoSH, some of them can't even follow basic username/ password typing, imagine syntax etc.
Light Bulb Moment...We're all out of a job...
....I do not know how many times I've gotten a customer to a point of at least diagnosing over the phone what is wrong because they can "see" what they are doing. Imagine trying to do that with .....oh holy cow, is that the end goal, tell them its another "iPad" and Google has the answer |
Joe
After everything that has happened during the month of Jan 07, I do believe that pigs fly backwards!
http://whatismyv6.com/ |
Edited by - wobble_wobble on 06/28/2012 3:59:46 PM |
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Jazzy
Administrator
Netherlands
1929 Posts
Status: offline |
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aval
Honorable But Hopeless Addict
USA
3274 Posts
Status: offline |
Posted - 06/30/2012 : 2:45:40 PM
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It's a literary reference that's entered the English language (though not really a term used on a day to day basis - or even necessarily understood by your average English speaker):
"The phrase "Catch-22", "a problematic situation for which the only solution is denied by a circumstance inherent in the problem"
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Catch-22
This develops the concept from a logical standpoint:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Catch-22_(logic) |
Edited by - aval on 06/30/2012 2:51:02 PM |
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Pesos
Honorable But Hopeless Addict
USA
3505 Posts
Status: offline |
Posted - 06/30/2012 : 2:48:57 PM
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| I think Jetze may understand what a catch 22 is, but not see how the scenario Joe put forward as being one... And I have to agree, not really a catch 22 since you don't need RDP access nor a gui to enable RDP access or the gui... |
-Wes |
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Jazzy
Administrator
Netherlands
1929 Posts
Status: offline |
Posted - 06/30/2012 : 3:08:58 PM
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Yes, I know what a catch 22 is. :)
I think there is another misunderstanding here. You can perfectly RDP into a server without a GUI. You'd be presented a cmdline box in which you can use PowerShell or all other cmdline tools to manage the server. So no GUI doesn't mean no RDP. |
Jetze Mellema
Exchange specialist
Former MVP (2005-2012)
My blog: http://jetzemellema.blogspot.com (Dutch)
My company: http://www.imara-ict.nl/ |
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aval
Honorable But Hopeless Addict
USA
3274 Posts
Status: offline |
Posted - 06/30/2012 : 3:17:54 PM
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quote:
Why are we pulling AD into XML databases?
Really? It's not a ESE type database anymore? |
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deandownsouth
Old Timer
USA
439 Posts
Status: offline |
Posted - 07/07/2012 : 01:06:51 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by wobble_wobble
How do I turn off the metro interface.
It's a feature that can be turned on and off. Actually, it isn't turned on by default, I mean the tiles are there for Control Panel, Administrator Tools, etc., but that isn't Metro since there's no "charms" no live tiles-unless I missed it. you have to turn those on.
Here's the feature of each "edition":
http://technet.microsoft.com/library/hh831786
I think most admins will probably opt for #2 since, even though it doesn't have a desktop, start menu, etc., it at least allows the running of MMCs, and that's the main thing it seems most admins want. Unless you work from the command line and PowerShell and/or write scripts every day or with some degree of regularity, staring at a command prompt is a daunting proposition. I forced myself to do everything that can be done at the command line when 2008 R1 came out it since I had been asking MS for a command line only option. Once you get used to it, at least for me, you find that going back to a mouse is a kludge and slower. It's even changed the way I interact on the desktop.
I for one am happy with Server 2012 options and features and that goes for the Hyper-V improvements. I think Windows 8 will be another Vista but I think the server side is a winner-if admins can get past the fact that you don't have to have Metro installed! |
Mark Dean
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Mark Minasi
Chief cook and bottle washer
USA
10658 Posts
Status: offline |
Posted - 07/09/2012 : 3:44:47 PM
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| The fix for the corner... Windows key+c. We're all gonna be hotkey experts soon! |
Mark
tweetin' at mminasi |
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Pesos
Honorable But Hopeless Addict
USA
3505 Posts
Status: offline |
Posted - 07/09/2012 : 4:03:50 PM
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| Hmm aren't hotkeys passed to your local machine, and not an RDP window? That's what's happening on my win8 box... |
-Wes |
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Jazzy
Administrator
Netherlands
1929 Posts
Status: offline |
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Pesos
Honorable But Hopeless Addict
USA
3505 Posts
Status: offline |
Posted - 07/09/2012 : 5:52:04 PM
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Thanks Jetze, I know the behavior can be changed, but I want to use hotkeys on my local computer :-)
I believe the switch in behavior is intended for people who are "living" in the RDP session - we just get into it from time to time for administration.
I really don't think there is a good answer for this issue. What I've done is basically pinned everything I care about to the taskbar. This gets me to most administrative tasks quickly enough. Logging out/rebooting is still a pain due to the corners, but I do that via command line most often anyway. |
-Wes |
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Mark Minasi
Chief cook and bottle washer
USA
10658 Posts
Status: offline |
Posted - 07/10/2012 : 04:19:26 AM
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| Good point, Wes... I was thinking of a similar problem that I've experienced a zillion times with virtual machines. I'm not adept enough at RDP to know hotkeys. What I do in RDP is just keep a PowerShell window open and just do whatever I need in PoSH if it's possible. (And yes, clearly your regular old users will never adopt THAT answer.) Otherwise that one-pixel thing puts me in Carpal Tunnel City. |
Mark
tweetin' at mminasi |
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Jazzy
Administrator
Netherlands
1929 Posts
Status: offline |
Posted - 07/10/2012 : 07:09:03 AM
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| So the real issue here is the RDP and hot-corner problem. Despite being given more options to perform management, some of them involve the Windows 8 desktop through RDP. |
Jetze Mellema
Exchange specialist
Former MVP (2005-2012)
My blog: http://jetzemellema.blogspot.com (Dutch)
My company: http://www.imara-ict.nl/ |
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Mark Minasi
Chief cook and bottle washer
USA
10658 Posts
Status: offline |
Posted - 07/11/2012 : 07:21:27 AM
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Jetze, I imagine that the interesting question here is, "will that be a quirk that goes away, or an ongoing annoyance that we all just say, 'screw it' and get used to?"
After a lot of thinking about it -- and I've done a lot -- UAC is a pointless pain in the ass, a productivity sucker. It should go. But the Office ribbon? I'm still not thrilled about it, but it gets the job done and in the end analysis probably DOES improve "discoverability."
As someone who's been living in Windows 8 and Server 2012 for the past nine months, I haven't wavered from feeling that the the one-pixel thing SERIOUSLY hurts mouse users on RDP and virtual machines. It HAS, however, given me new encouragement to get better at PowerShell.<g>
I imagine that in time we'll have a number of WinRT admin tools, so we'll want to get to the Metro desktop, and maybe they'll come up with an easy way for RDP users to get to it. (I'm not as RDP-smart so there may be an obvious one here that I don't know.) So I don't think it's a good idea to turn off the "Start Menu" (the official Microsoft name for what most of us call the "Metro desktop"), but it should be easier to get there if Windowskey+C isn't available. |
Mark
tweetin' at mminasi |
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Pesos
Honorable But Hopeless Addict
USA
3505 Posts
Status: offline |
Posted - 07/11/2012 : 10:29:41 AM
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| hmm... if only there were some easy way to just click something to get to the start menu... Like a button of some sort... Yeah! A start button! :) |
-Wes |
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JamesNT
Moderator
USA
3150 Posts
Status: offline |
Posted - 07/11/2012 : 7:00:44 PM
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When it comes to Windows Server 2012, my solution to the Metro interface is easy: DUMP IT.
Windows Server 2012 will be my reason to master Powershell at long last.
JamesNT |
James Summerlin
www.jamessummerlin.com |
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