| Author |
 Topic  |
|
|
itechsolutions
Here To Stay
USA
294 Posts
Status: offline |
 Posted - 04/12/2012 : 1:39:36 PM
|
Hi -
We are changing company names and the company would like the new name to be reflected on everything across the infrastructure. We are currently on a 2003 Domain with Exchange 2003; we are thinking this would be a perfect time to upgrade to 2008 domain and 2010 Exchange. I am leaning towards creating completely new network/domain using VLANS and then migrating the email and users over (about 80 users). Would this be the best way to migrate? I know the weekend of the switch would require a lot of configuration and migrating but I believe this would be cleaner than trying to rename the current domain and Exchange then upgrading platforms. I know we can create an Exchange domain in addition to the main domain however the complete domain renames is a requirement. All server (16 will be renames as well and joined to the new domain) including a SQL 2000,SQL 2008, IIS Sites and the normal file and print servers. Has anyone attempted this or do you think a rename of the AD would be a better solution?
Thanks for any input.
|
|
|
netmarcos
Honorable But Hopeless Addict
USA
2219 Posts
Status: offline |
Posted - 04/12/2012 : 2:00:25 PM
|
| Knowing how much SQL (as well as other items mentioned) likes renames of anything and how likely it is that you will need new hardware and all of that jazz anyway, I am totally in favor of the parallel installation of a new domain and migrate. Clients would need to be joined to the new domain, configured for the new Exchange servers and on and on, but I am quite confident that you will like the results a lot more than going the piece by piece upgrade route. This way, you can build it all and test it thoroughly before moving a single live transaction or user. |
Mark M. Webster
Genius may have its limitations, but stupidity is not thus handicapped. - Elbert Hubbard
 |
 |
|
|
Jazzy
Administrator
Netherlands
1926 Posts
Status: offline |
Posted - 04/12/2012 : 2:22:28 PM
|
In general, upgrading within your existing environment is much smoother and almost painless compared by building everything new and migrate to it. This goes for AD, Exchange, fileserver, SQL en last but not least the workstations. So while I usually advice against a domain rename, when this are your choices I would go for the rename. After the rename you can upgrade the components in your own pace.
quote:
and the company would like the new name to be reflected on everything across the infrastructure.
You mean: they now want to use a generic name across the infrastructure to prevent this situation occurs again in the future.  |
Jetze Mellema
Exchange specialist
Former MVP (2005-2012)
My blog: http://jetzemellema.blogspot.com (Dutch)
My company: http://www.imara-ict.nl/ |
|
|
|
netmarcos
Honorable But Hopeless Addict
USA
2219 Posts
Status: offline |
Posted - 04/12/2012 : 3:14:29 PM
|
Competing opinions; I like it. Full disclosure: I have spent much of my career migrating between platforms, merging companies, consolidating domains and forests, and shutting down the old stuff. It's nice to start fresh sometimes, but not always.
Any more opinions on this? |
Mark M. Webster
Genius may have its limitations, but stupidity is not thus handicapped. - Elbert Hubbard
|
|
|
|
Jazzy
Administrator
Netherlands
1926 Posts
Status: offline |
|
|
wkasdo
Administrator
Netherlands
7403 Posts
Status: offline |
Posted - 04/12/2012 : 4:42:25 PM
|
| A domain rename breaks a lot of stuff. Exchange is the first one to go! |
Make it as simple as you can, but not simpler -- Albert Einstein |
|
|
|
Jazzy
Administrator
Netherlands
1926 Posts
Status: offline |
|
|
wkasdo
Administrator
Netherlands
7403 Posts
Status: offline |
Posted - 04/12/2012 : 5:01:07 PM
|
| True. I picked up Exchange 2010 by mistake. I should read better ;-) |
Make it as simple as you can, but not simpler -- Albert Einstein |
|
|
|
wobble_wobble
Honorable But Hopeless Addict
Ireland
4516 Posts
Status: offline |
Posted - 04/12/2012 : 7:13:25 PM
|
Unless you have the budget for the hosts for 16 guests, I'd say your left with rename.
What do the other 13 or so servers do? |
Joe
After everything that has happened during the month of Jan 07, I do believe that pigs fly backwards!
http://whatismyv6.com/ |
|
|
|
itechsolutions
Here To Stay
USA
294 Posts
Status: offline |
Posted - 04/13/2012 : 11:18:58 AM
|
| Thanks for the input guys....We were planning to change out the domain controllers (3) and Exchange servers(2 including Edge)...then migrate the other member servers(File, SQL. ETC) to the new domain over a weekend (Long Weekend)I know there will be a lot of prep work involved in getting the new infrastructure up then a lot on the weekend of the migration, but I believe the extra work up front would benefit us in the long run. One of the test I was planning was to get the new servers up and running then take a VMware image of a couple of the other critical servers and joining them to the new domain prior to the switch and see how they react and do some testing. Any additional input would be greatly appreciated and if anyone has done this in the past any recommendations? |
________________________________________
Steve Peck - Network Manager
E-Mail: itechsolutions@gmail.com
|
|
|
|
Jazzy
Administrator
Netherlands
1926 Posts
Status: offline |
Posted - 04/13/2012 : 11:26:37 AM
|
Change out the domain controllers and Exchange servers? Thats's not going to work. You need to build new domain controllers and new Exchange servers, then move the AD objects (ADMT) or recreate the AD objects and move the mailbox data to the new servers. Google/Bing for 'cross forest Exchange migration' for more information. For the rest of your plan, simply look at every part of the infrastructure (user's workstations, SQL, fileserver, policies, shortcuts) and make a plan to rebuild it in the new environment. And then execute the plan in a weekend.
Need recommendations? Don't do it and rename the domain. Then upgrade the DC's in your own pace without interupting anything, then upgrade Exchange in your own pace without interupting anything, and so on. :) |
Jetze Mellema
Exchange specialist
Former MVP (2005-2012)
My blog: http://jetzemellema.blogspot.com (Dutch)
My company: http://www.imara-ict.nl/ |
|
|
|
wobble_wobble
Honorable But Hopeless Addict
Ireland
4516 Posts
Status: offline |
Posted - 04/13/2012 : 12:04:52 PM
|
quote:
Originally posted by itechsolutions
Thanks for the input guys....We were planning to change out the domain controllers (3) and Exchange servers(2 including Edge)...then migrate the other member servers(File, SQL. ETC) to the new domain over a weekend (Long Weekend)I know there will be a lot of prep work involved in getting the new infrastructure up then a lot on the weekend of the migration, but I believe the extra work up front would benefit us in the long run. One of the test I was planning was to get the new servers up and running then take a VMware image of a couple of the other critical servers and joining them to the new domain prior to the switch and see how they react and do some testing. Any additional input would be greatly appreciated and if anyone has done this in the past any recommendations?
You mentioned Exchange 2003 in the original yet Exchange Edge (2007 + Role) in this. Are you just using Edge to protect the 2003 Exchange Server?
|
Joe
After everything that has happened during the month of Jan 07, I do believe that pigs fly backwards!
http://whatismyv6.com/ |
|
|
|
itechsolutions
Here To Stay
USA
294 Posts
Status: offline |
Posted - 04/13/2012 : 12:24:29 PM
|
Sorry didn’t explain thoroughly, I was planning to rebuild the Domains and Exchange servers on new hardware then migrating everything else over to the new domain. We are currently on Exchange 2003 and moving to Exchange 2010 on the new infrastructure so basically building up a separate network with Server 2008 (Domain Controllers) and Exchange 2010 creating all the accounts groups, GPO, testing and so forth before the weekend of the switch then on the weekend of the switch migrate mailboxes, permissions and domain computers and servers. I was planning to export all the user mailboxes with exmerge and then importing them into the new 2010 server over that weekend. There will be downtime in this weekend however the shop is mostly a Mon-Fri so it will not affect production.
Have you ever renamed a production environment? Most of the documentation I found online say rebuilding is a cleaner way of going about this that you could have issues with renaming a production environment. My concern is if we rename and run into intermittent issues trying a rebuild after the rename may be more difficult than if we built it up now.
|
________________________________________
Steve Peck - Network Manager
E-Mail: itechsolutions@gmail.com
|
|
|
|
Jazzy
Administrator
Netherlands
1926 Posts
Status: offline |
Posted - 04/13/2012 : 2:28:47 PM
|
I'm afraid you still think of it a little bit too easy. For example, the exmerge migration does not copy:
- mailbox permissions
- delegation settings
- mailboxes larger than 2 GB
- mailbox rules
- the ability to reply to existing emails
- the Outlook cache/nk2 file is no longer working
And that's just the mailbox data. How about Public Folders? Mail-enabled public folders? Permissions on Public Folders? The Outlook profile? Users who had multiple mailboxes in their profile? Signature? And who is going to support your users with their questions, who is going to pay for the lost productivity?
quote:
Have you ever renamed a production environment? Most of the documentation I found online say rebuilding is a cleaner way of going about this that you could have issues with renaming a production environment. My concern is if we rename and run into intermittent issues trying a rebuild after the rename may be more difficult than if we built it up now.
Idenify the parts you'r worried about, maybe Exchange, two SQL versions and a workstation? Copy them to VMware and you can test the rename as many times as you like. From what I've seen in the forums, problems will occur immediately and not after months. This means you can test the domain rename and solve issues before you do the rename in production. |
Jetze Mellema
Exchange specialist
Former MVP (2005-2012)
My blog: http://jetzemellema.blogspot.com (Dutch)
My company: http://www.imara-ict.nl/ |
|
|
|
itechsolutions
Here To Stay
USA
294 Posts
Status: offline |
Posted - 04/13/2012 : 2:51:05 PM
|
| If I did the rename procedure instead how does that affect Exchange and DNS functioning? Also how do all the workstations and member servers react after the change? After reboots do they all come up with the new domain name or do they have to be rejoined? I am not opposed to doing the rename I just want to make sure I use the best method in switching over. The main priority was to get the e-mail domain changed which can be done pretty easily with a SMTP domain, but then it was mentioned that everything should reflect the new company domain. Thanks for the input on the exmerge I have maybe 3 users with mailboxes over 2 GB which would be a problem, Also what do you mean the ability to reply to existing emails? Does that mean any exmerged email they cannot reply to? How does that differ from when upgrading to exchange 2010 from 2003 is all that information saved? I found a program that will migrate the users to the new domain and bring all user settings with it. I know the Outlook cache and settings will be lost however on the new Exchange server, would they be lost in a migration to Exchange 2010 after the rename anyway? Also on the public folders when upgrading to Exchange 2010 do they keep all the settings we do not use them much besides a couple calendars that could be recreated. I am not trying to make the migration sound easy, I am under the impression though that upgrading from server 2003 to server 2010 and Exchange 2003 to exchange 2010 would be a large task and I could accomplish both the rename and upgrade with the rebuild option. |
________________________________________
Steve Peck - Network Manager
E-Mail: itechsolutions@gmail.com
|
|
|
|
wobble_wobble
Honorable But Hopeless Addict
Ireland
4516 Posts
Status: offline |
Posted - 04/13/2012 : 3:53:15 PM
|
Putting money into the equation and asking a primary question.
Do you have the budget for the work and there is a lot of work?
What is the internal domain name?
|
Joe
After everything that has happened during the month of Jan 07, I do believe that pigs fly backwards!
http://whatismyv6.com/ |
|
|
|
Jazzy
Administrator
Netherlands
1926 Posts
Status: offline |
Posted - 04/13/2012 : 4:18:16 PM
|
Steve, if you upgrade the domain controllers (after the domain rename) the clients will not notice that at all. When you upgrade Exchange after the rename the clients will notice nothing, no interuption, no data lost, nothing changes for the users. Every item and setting is saved. Worst case scenario is that the user hast to restart Outlook once, that's all.
I cannot stress enough how huge the difference is between upgrading services within your domain as opposed to trying to copy everything to a new domain.
Regarding your questions about a domain rename. This is not 100% painless, you need to fix some stuff like for example a fqdn in a logon script. But again, that's nothing compared to build everything new in a separate environment. A good overview of the process can be found here: http://www.msexchange.org/tutorials/domain-rename.html |
Jetze Mellema
Exchange specialist
Former MVP (2005-2012)
My blog: http://jetzemellema.blogspot.com (Dutch)
My company: http://www.imara-ict.nl/ |
|
|
|
itechsolutions
Here To Stay
USA
294 Posts
Status: offline |
Posted - 04/16/2012 : 09:35:35 AM
|
| How would it work if I added the "newdomain.com" as a SMTP domain and change that to the default email for all users then tried to do the rename after that? |
________________________________________
Steve Peck - Network Manager
E-Mail: itechsolutions@gmail.com
|
|
|
|
Jazzy
Administrator
Netherlands
1926 Posts
Status: offline |
|
| |
Topic |
|
Domain Rename or Recreate
