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sixdoubleo
Major Contributor
USA
859 Posts
Status: offline |
 Posted - 01/04/2011 : 4:14:09 PM
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I'm sick of hearing about the cloud. Is it just me? Why must we put a new name on something we already have a name for...ummm, what was it....it's on the tip of my tongue...oh yeah, the EFFING INTERNET!!!!
Yes, I get it. The "cloud" is a movement and trend towards providing service-based scalable computing and was really given a shot in the arm by virtualization. Aware of EC2, and Azure, and how they provide near infinite scaling of resources., etc. I use many cloud-based services for me and my clients. I get the cloud. It's good.
But must we overuse the term to describe everything we do on a computer? Not everything involving the Internet or a network is "Cloud Computing" and sadly, in an effort to capitalize on the term, it's getting that way.
The other day one of our Microsoft reps was talking about our "internal cloud". Our Internal Cloud? I know I'm gonna date myself here, but you mean our LAN? A decade or so ago we had to come up with "Intranet" so there'd be a cool name to describe our internal private environment. But now that one is so 2001...and now we're calling our internal network "the private cloud". Ugh.
And "to the cloud"?? Serious? So basically you're telling me that before this whole cloud invention, the capability of editing the faces of your text-messaging rats out of the family photo and sharing them online didn't exist? Hey thanks Microsoft!...and thanks "THE CLOUD" for giving us...uh, photo editing? It's Windows Live...and it's a place you store your crap. Simple as that. It's been the same for damn near a decade...just slightly more integrated with each update. Nonetheless, the same basic capability has existed forever.
Sorry for the rant...just sort of clouded out. Basically when terms like this are introduced, our management tend to latch on to these buzzwords without actually understanding what they really mean. And now anything that has the word "cloud" in it is instantly perceived as cutting edge or innovative.
Anyway, as our management goes gaga for all things cloud, we have a tough time trying to ground them properly so that they understand that much of what we currently have been doing in terms of virtualization, removing our geographic boundaries, moving services off-site, etc is basically "cloud computing"...there just wasn't such a name for it when they signed the check for it 2 years ago.
Vendors and system integrators are loving this because it puts a new name on an old product and it's a perfect opportunity to prey on said check-writers selling them the exact thing they had, but with the word "cloud-based" attached to it.
Anyway, all ranting aside :) I was just wondering if others are having similar challenges managing their management and their understanding of what the cloud is, and more importantly what it isn't.
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PhilbertRupkins
Welcome Newcomer
USA
23 Posts
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Posted - 01/04/2011 : 6:28:55 PM
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I forsee having to deal with management pushing an evaluation of cloud technologies and therfore having to explain what it is and isnt. Hasnt happened yet, but I am going to be prepared.
"Anyway, as our management goes gaga for all things cloud, we have a tough time trying to ground them properly so that they understand that much of what we currently have been doing in terms of virtualization, removing our geographic boundaries, moving services off-site, etc is basically "cloud computing"...there just wasn't such a name for it when they signed the check for it 2 years ago."
I agree. Now we just have different service providers (Google, Microsoft) and applications available in "the cloud" but "the cloud" itself is nothing new.
Unfortunately, management is often tasked with reducing costs and Information Technology can be easy prey, depending on the organization, especially when Microsoft and Google sales reps are feeding management cost savings figures when moving to the cloud.
It will be an interesting 2011. |
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jaxdave
Honorable But Hopeless Addict
USA
2426 Posts
Status: offline |
Posted - 01/04/2011 : 7:21:29 PM
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| Yes it will be indeed. Gartner states that by 2016 all Global 2000 companies will use public cloud services and probably more to the real point. There will be 148 BILLION dollars worth of revenue generated from those services by 2014! So for better or for worse one needs to adopt,except,adapt to it in some way shape or form because there is too much money at stake and ALL the big players have huge marketing budgets to convince whomever they need to that it is THE WAY.... |
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downtime
Old Timer
United Kingdom
653 Posts
Status: offline |
Posted - 01/05/2011 : 06:18:26 AM
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This kinda reminds me of the whole Microsoft .NET thing a few years back. Do you remember? They basically used the term ".NET" to describe everything! It just confused the hell out of people. They were even going to rename their server products ".NET something or other".
The term "cloud computing" is now becoming rather confused.
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Edited by - downtime on 01/05/2011 06:18:45 AM |
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DennisMCSE
Moderator
Canada
2400 Posts
Status: offline |
Posted - 01/05/2011 : 11:22:10 AM
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As far as I can remember, every book on networking I read, when it was showing a drawing of something leaving your local LAN, it had a "cloud" to indicate the Internet or Intranet. It was a way to show that the data went somewhere, just not on your local network. So "cloud" computing definately isn't new, just people are using the term "cloud" more.
Before, when I talked to end users and said "Internet", they thought of Google searches or retail webpages or online banking and stuff like that. When I talked to end users about storage of their data online, they seem to see that different than the Internet, since they used other words such as "out there" or "somewhere" to describe where their data is. But now when I talk to them about data storage online, they instantly talk about the "cloud" as being the place their data is. It's like they've found something they couldn't find the words to describe before. Very strange.
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DennisMCSE
Blog: http://itprofirewalker.wordpress.com/
Follow me on Twitter http://twitter.com/Firewalker96
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arek73
Honorable But Hopeless Addict
Poland
4642 Posts
Status: offline |
Posted - 01/05/2011 : 1:26:45 PM
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| My thoughts exactly, Dave. I also think the term is seriously overused. And "to the cloud" for common dwellers? I don't think so. Folks could care less. |
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Arek |
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Curt
Moderator
USA
6648 Posts
Status: offline |
Posted - 01/05/2011 : 2:35:49 PM
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Apathy at their own risk.
What do expect from people with an "Education".
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Curt Spanburgh
Microsoft Certified Business Solution Specialist.
Dynamics CRM MVP
Contributing Editor, Windows IT Pro
He that is walking with wise persons will become wise, but he that is having dealings with the stupid ones will fare badly.
Proverbs 13:20
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Edited by - Curt on 01/05/2011 2:39:14 PM |
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lacrosseboy
Old Timer
550 Posts
Status: offline |
Posted - 01/05/2011 : 2:45:17 PM
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| Remember that Gartner stated in 1995 that everyone would be using O/S-2 by now. We all see how that worked out. My general feeling is that there is some good things to put out in the cloud but others that may or not make sense, yet. The regulation side of things will make it interesting but then the US feds are moving to the "cloud" faster than most. |
Thomas Deimel
Keeper of the Holy Potato |
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cj_berlin
Honorable But Hopeless Addict
Germany
3964 Posts
Status: offline |
Posted - 01/05/2011 : 3:37:24 PM
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| ... and to show how the accuracy of their predictions has improved over time: in 2007, Gartner said that by 2011, 90% of new desktops in major corporations will be deployed by ways of VDI. Two years later, they corrected that figure to 15%. |
Evgenij Smirnov
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Mark Minasi
Chief cook and bottle washer
USA
10658 Posts
Status: offline |
Posted - 01/05/2011 : 4:26:34 PM
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Too true!
When I talk about "the cloud," I define it as "any computing and networking hosting service that can be delivered over the Internet by third parties."
Thus, if you think about it, the first true "cloud service" would be Web hosting, which we've had for almost 16 years now. |
Mark
tweetin' at mminasi |
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arek73
Honorable But Hopeless Addict
Poland
4642 Posts
Status: offline |
Posted - 01/05/2011 : 4:26:50 PM
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| Gartner is as good as Nostradamus, just more expen$ive. |
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Arek |
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wobble_wobble
Honorable But Hopeless Addict
Ireland
4516 Posts
Status: offline |
Posted - 01/05/2011 : 5:12:17 PM
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Would DNS not have been the first cloud application, based on the notion of the American Standards people, that a cloud is a ....collection of computing resources...?
Which kinda ties it back to the Internet? |
Joe
After everything that has happened during the month of Jan 07, I do believe that pigs fly backwards!
http://whatismyv6.com/ |
Edited by - wobble_wobble on 01/05/2011 5:13:56 PM |
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Curt
Moderator
USA
6648 Posts
Status: offline |
Posted - 01/05/2011 : 10:49:11 PM
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Well yes to all the above.
For instance hosted email has been around for a while and Hotmail would be the biggest "Cloud app" so far.
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Curt Spanburgh
Microsoft Certified Business Solution Specialist.
Dynamics CRM MVP
Contributing Editor, Windows IT Pro
He that is walking with wise persons will become wise, but he that is having dealings with the stupid ones will fare badly.
Proverbs 13:20
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Mark Minasi
Chief cook and bottle washer
USA
10658 Posts
Status: offline |
Posted - 01/06/2011 : 2:39:37 PM
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Joe, I was talking about hosting commercially useful network services, which is why I included "computing." I mean, *IP* is a networking service but non-technical folks don't really want it, they just NEED it. Jane's Ecologically Friendly Cookies Baked Without Stolen Animal Products doesn't want DNS any more than they want TCP, IP, UDP, ICMP, or electricity. JEFCBWSAP *does,* however, want a Web site, and it's far cheaper for them to just hand some content to a web hosting service than to get a static address, set up and maintain a server etc. Email hosting would fall in the same category -- anyone whose email address looked like susie@well.com or jack62351@aol.com chose to go to a cloud vendor rather than do it themselves.
Capice? I'm ready for another round, McGlynn!<g>
(Isn't defining nublous terms fun.) |
Mark
tweetin' at mminasi |
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Rastor728
Old Timer
USA
736 Posts
Status: offline |
Posted - 01/06/2011 : 3:01:00 PM
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The only clouds that are reliably available in my area drop water or snow almost year round!
Of course my Doctors and Administrators don't understand why Netflix streaming 10 different movies is such a problem for the night shift? |
What would Clark Kent do to someone who stole his identity? |
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wobble_wobble
Honorable But Hopeless Addict
Ireland
4516 Posts
Status: offline |
Posted - 01/06/2011 : 4:38:38 PM
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Well is DNS a cloud application?
Are the Root DNS Servers part of the cloud ( or internet, intranet and even extranet) and with that magic of split brain DNS, part of this notion of the Hybrid? I don't think that the Root Servers A,B,C etc are private cloud services.
I await your answer.
But offer the following;
quote:
The National Institute of Standards and Technology (NIST) provides a somewhat more objective and specific definition here.[6] The term "cloud" is used as a metaphor for the Internet, based on the cloud drawing used in the past to represent the telephone network,[7] and later to depict the Internet in computer network diagrams as an abstraction of the underlying infrastructure it represents.(8) Typical cloud computing providers deliver common business applications online that are accessed from another Web service or software like a Web browser, while the software and data are stored on servers.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cloud_computing
Now I know that the Root servers are put there by someone and supported by someone, but they don't make me pay for it, so is that Public Cloud?
All said with a lovely 15YO Red Breast in my hand after 2 weeks of flu.
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Joe
After everything that has happened during the month of Jan 07, I do believe that pigs fly backwards!
http://whatismyv6.com/ |
Edited by - wobble_wobble on 01/06/2011 4:39:28 PM |
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Mark Minasi
Chief cook and bottle washer
USA
10658 Posts
Status: offline |
Posted - 01/07/2011 : 10:36:22 AM
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The perfect flu remedy, I'd imagine! Too bad my local pharmacy doesn't stock it, dagnabbit.
Again, no one WANTS DNS. Ford Motor Company makes cars, but in order to do that, they want to run a Web site so that they can SELL them. That's what the "common business application" the definition refers to is talking about -- sales, and in particular Internet-based sales assistance tools.
DNS is just a necessary evil to enable the Web site.
It's like Windows... no consumer WANTS Windows or OS/X or whatever. What they want is to get email, watch movies on the Internet and get to Facebook. Windows, OS/X or Linux are just parts of the delivery method. |
Mark
tweetin' at mminasi |
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Curt
Moderator
USA
6648 Posts
Status: offline |
Posted - 01/07/2011 : 12:36:38 PM
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Ok, it's the early eightys.
Most of your friends are getting devices to play "Tapes" of movies at home.
You don't have one.
They also have something called a "Game Machine".
You don't have either.
You...... have a computer.
They are interested in the movies, cable sports channels and cool games on a "Game Machine"
You with the computer, are figuring out bytes and hex arithmetic.
You are looking at chip design and a thing called a "Floppy drive" that can hold 360kb of data. You could use that to back up your data.
Now it's 2010. The guy who had the home entertainment machines and the game machines is running out of unemployment checks.
You....... are as busy as you have ever bin and your still learning new technology.
So they don't care about DNS?
GOOD!!!!!!!!
But then again lots of folks in the IT industry don't care about it either.
Many of us have used or even built hosted environments for years.
Now they are going to be marketed by the big boys.
Data centers want their business. Those that do will succeed and live.
Look at folks like Rack Space.
I used to get my hardware there when they were a small store.
So the products , like email and DNS were just a forgleam of what was possible.
Not more is possible. Many of us will continue to be "Tool Makers" while the rest will become tool users.
If their not interested , we will continue to make a living.
So embrace carefully the new technology, which is only a repackaging of old technology.
It will all find it's place.
I'm sick of the slogans, but not of the technology. Will "Cloud" fix things in the IT world? NO, it will only move risk around and the "freshness" of it will wear off like having internet access has become common place.
Then Mark's comments about least cost and least service will come true.
The cycle will begin again.
If I could be allowed to do it, I would be making my own power.
I've wanted too for years. I also wanted an electric car for years.
Yes, in those goals the "Cost" and risk are moved around.
But it will all balance out.
At least I don't have an COBOL developers calling me any more to see if I know of any gigs for them.
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Curt Spanburgh
Microsoft Certified Business Solution Specialist.
Dynamics CRM MVP
Contributing Editor, Windows IT Pro
He that is walking with wise persons will become wise, but he that is having dealings with the stupid ones will fare badly.
Proverbs 13:20
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wobble_wobble
Honorable But Hopeless Addict
Ireland
4516 Posts
Status: offline |
Posted - 01/07/2011 : 4:49:46 PM
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So, DNS is a cloud service?
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Joe
After everything that has happened during the month of Jan 07, I do believe that pigs fly backwards!
http://whatismyv6.com/ |
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cj_berlin
Honorable But Hopeless Addict
Germany
3964 Posts
Status: offline |
Posted - 01/07/2011 : 5:08:47 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by Curt
So embrace carefully the new technology, which is only a repackaging of old technology.
Right. But unfortunately (or fortunately?) we do not live in a world of technology but rather in a world of doing business with other businesses. And here's where the techniques - even if they are not all new from the technological standpoint - of what is now being referred to as 'Cloud Computing' could bring about the most changes. Collaboration between employees at distant sites and between businesses physically located in distant parts of the world will *probably* become smoother than it is now.
There are 'Extranets' out there spanning independent enterprises that have grown to be so transparent over the years that hosting all that stuff in one data centre and getting rid of the whole VPN-intersite trust-data interface-XML translation crapology once and for all definitely seems the logical next step.
I am reluctant to call all of those changes 'progress', though. |
Evgenij Smirnov
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Edited by - cj_berlin on 01/07/2011 5:09:28 PM |
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IGnatius T Foobar
Welcome Newcomer
USA
1 Posts
Status: offline |
Posted - 03/16/2013 : 7:20:09 PM
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If you have to generalize it and stay technically accurate, "cloud computing" could be defined as any technology service where the complexity and details of implementation are hidden on the other side of a service provider agreement.
And yes, it's the same old stuff, rebranded.
So feel free to take any product or service, and stick the word "cloud" in front of it. That's what everyone else does.
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Curt
Moderator
USA
6648 Posts
Status: offline |
Posted - 03/19/2013 : 4:59:08 PM
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Windows 2003 really was going to be called .net server.
And Win IT Pro magazine had changed it's name to Windows .Net Magazine.
That's the power of standardizing a Platform to build applications on.
quote:
Originally posted by downtime
This kinda reminds me of the whole Microsoft .NET thing a few years back. Do you remember? They basically used the term ".NET" to describe everything! It just confused the hell out of people. They were even going to rename their server products ".NET something or other".
The term "cloud computing" is now becoming rather confused.
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Curt Spanburgh
Microsoft Certified Business Solution Specialist.
Dynamics CRM MVP
Contributing Editor, Windows IT Pro
He that is walking with wise persons will become wise, but he that is having dealings with the stupid ones will fare badly.
Proverbs 13:20
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JSCLMEDAVE
Administrator
USA
6113 Posts
Status: online |
Posted - 03/19/2013 : 5:10:40 PM
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You had better be on board with the Cloud or you will not be presenting in New Orleans this year... You have been warned...
Oh, and do not get caught by the New Kinect Facial Recognition walking around Redmond with a MACBook AIR or you and Don will be looking from the Outside In. <g> |
Tim-
“This too shall pass" |
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Jazzy
Administrator
Netherlands
1926 Posts
Status: offline |
Posted - 03/20/2013 : 04:19:21 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by IGnatius T Foobar
If you have to generalize it and stay technically accurate, "cloud computing" could be defined as any technology service where the complexity and details of implementation are hidden on the other side of a service provider agreement.
And yes, it's the same old stuff, rebranded.
So feel free to take any product or service, and stick the word "cloud" in front of it. That's what everyone else does.
Cloud computing is not a technology or product, it's a way of delivering something as a service. Most definitions include:
- delivering IT capabilities
- as a service
- scalable, flexible
- broad network access
- standard internet technologies
- measured usage
- optional: shared with other tenants/customers
- optional: pay per use, no investment upfront
So cloud computing is much more then a hosted environment, you can even use the cloud computing model to provide services to your own business. This is what's being called the private cloud.
So if a services is being called 'cloud' and the features I described earlier apply, then it makes sense. If you buy a server and the box says 'cloud server' then it's probably just marketing. |
Jetze Mellema
Exchange specialist
Former MVP (2005-2012)
My blog: http://jetzemellema.blogspot.com (Dutch)
My company: http://www.imara-ict.nl/ |
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Sick of "the cloud"
